HomeOwners for Better Building - Another Centex House: Pond, water, foundation problems and NO Certificates of Occupancy

6:55 AM on July 1, 2010

Wasn't Centex the builder who was challenging the validity of "implied warranty" on their houses in the Texas Supreme Court? In other words, they felt that the requirement of "habitability and good and workmanlike construction" was holding them to too strict a standard, and had implied warranty waivers in their sales contracts. Google "centex homes v buecher" Caveat emptor!

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12:00 AM on July 1, 2010

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cowboycapt1

10:56 PM on June 30, 2010

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This just in- home built on large pile of bullsh!t, plagued with doo doo smell...

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Hg130

8:43 PM on June 30, 2010

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Stop making payments.

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longhorns1

8:24 PM on June 30, 2010

Texas has one "natural" pond/ lake in all of Texas. Caddo Lake...every other pond/ lake is human made. Stock ponds can be off-channel or on-channel, it doesn't matter, just depends on wether you want the water to flow into it and fill it up with river water or if you want to pump the river water out and put it into the off-channel pond. Looks like according to USGS "austin east" map, it's an off-channel reservoir, so probably no underflow and no natural creek flowing through it..so maybe the builder didnt grade the home well for proper runoff or maybe its just a crappy house...who knows? Centex seems to be developing a bad reputation lately in central/ southwest texas.

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Rusty Shackleford

5:00 PM on June 30, 2010

The problems they have are 100% due to shoddy workmanship & at being at the bottom of a hill. A "human made stock pond" is purely filled by runoff or pumping water into it. Unlike a natural pond which is created due by springs or seapage as a result of a low water table.

Having a home on top of a filled in former human made stock pond has NOTHING to do with their problems, albeit, given there was a stock pond there previously seems to indicate its the general loaction that is the issue (ie: in trough at the bottom of a hill).

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jmsmaxwell

2:18 PM on June 30, 2010

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Sounds like the ball was droped on more than one level. The financial organization who financed the home, The Builder, The City and the Developer all have messed up in this case. The Builder should refund the couples expenses and any money they have paid so far. This is very close to a deceptive trade practice. Without all the details it would be hard to decide the burden of guilt in this matter. The home buyers apparently tried to meet thier obligations but are being stymed by the Builder who ignored the problems. The city should have followed up on the filed inspection to insure that no one had moved into the home. The financial organization/title company did not complet their reqirement to insure that the deal was clean and clear of any legal problems (Certification of occupancy). At this point the list is endless and the libility is out there to be passed around. The family can only hope that they will receive justice in this matter and be able to recoverf the expenses they have incurred due to neglance from many sources.

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Really..well...well

1:56 PM on June 30, 2010

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ok so I am one of those sunshower people that just got a call from Centex to say...that I am one of those people that didn't pass code!! I can't believe this. We have had issues with certain parts of our land retaining water. We have also called out the water company because our water stinks all of the time...could that be related?? Essentially I feel like they just devauled my property by 10K because now I have to say oh ya your on top of where a pond was..there has been flooding..around us. Just when you don't need another thing to damage your balance book.

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whoa

12:36 PM on June 30, 2010

The title company has insurance for just these types of problems. They need to pursue a buy-back of the house. I'm sure Cen-Tex would have no problems reselling this structure they have such confidence in.

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Tarvin

12:13 PM on June 30, 2010

Guess what? Water collects in my yard after it rains too.
Because water comes from the sky as rain and then lies on the ground for a while.

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11:54 AM on June 30, 2010

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The Monkey

11:48 AM on June 30, 2010

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I think the title company should have been named in this article. I see the title company as having some major liability here as well as the builder.

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11:40 AM on June 30, 2010

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downtown Happy hour?

11:23 AM on June 30, 2010

I think Centex needs to fix this to the owners' needs. How would they feel if they bought a home and for a third of the time the home (or more) was highly defective? Come on, of COURSE their engineers deemed it safe!

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maelstrom

11:19 AM on June 30, 2010

Please sue the Title Company that issued the title policy, Centex Homes and the City of Austin. They are all at fault.

I hope they can collect treble damages from all three entities under DTPA.

DTPA provides for recovery of economic damages. If a court finds the wrongful conduct was "knowingly" committed, it may award up to three times the amount of economic damages, as well as damages for mental anguish. If the act was committed "intentionally," the court may award up to three times the economic damages. if you prevail, you will be awarded court costs and attorney's fees.

Go get 'em!

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Marily

11:16 AM on June 30, 2010

From what I understand, the City of Austin doesn't issue an actual certificate of occupancy for new homes - they just pass city finals. This is why a lender doesn't know if the city finals have passed or not. What they depend on is an appraiser to see that the home is fully completed and landscaping is installed. If a final doesn't pass, the electric meters are not supposed to be installed until they do. Depending on the slope of the yard/street, water can drain from one house to another - the issue is standing water for long periods of time. I do think the builder should have disclosed to the buyer that there was a pond previously. Plumbing problems might not necessarily have to do with the soil conditions - maybe just construction debris. This article is not very complete.

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longhorns1

10:58 AM on June 30, 2010

@ jayn:
unfortunately in that area, there is no state water for them to keep the pond if it was on-channel or if they got water from a creek to keep it full and pretty. Once they build homes around a pond that once was on a ranch a permit is needed from TCEQ. If they wanted to keep it they would have had to buy water from LCRA or drilled a very exspensive well. A lot of builders do keep old stock ponds as subdivision ponds for the homes but they are illegal if they dont get a state water right permit and they mostly pray no on enforces on them until they turn it over to the hoa and then the hoa is responsible for paying the money to buy water or breach the dam.

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MouthoftheSouth

10:56 AM on June 30, 2010

If they purchased Title Insurance they should be able to get the cost of the home back. Was once a time when Insurance was worth the price. Isn't anymore.

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DefenderOfTheTruth

10:52 AM on June 30, 2010

what more would you expect from the super high end builder that is Centex Homes?

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longhorns1

10:45 AM on June 30, 2010

@P8riot:
in Texas you're allowed to build a 200 acre-foot or smaller human made dammed reservoir (pond) on a tributary or water course for domestic and livestock purposes without a state water right permit.

I'm not sure if an earthen dam was involved or if the pond was incised but if a blue line runs through the pond on a USGS map, it was most likely built on a watercourse and could have underflow...just sayin...

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jayn

10:39 AM on June 30, 2010

That greedy homebuilder should have kept the pond and created a park-like setting around it instead of plopping a house on top of it.

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OldBlowhard

10:15 AM on June 30, 2010

Based on when this one was built & sold, it's still under the sunsetted TX Real Estate Commission law. Plus there's the written-notice-to-builder/contractor law. Plus the 2 year statute of limitations for deceptive trade practices (4 years for straight breach of contract). Plus Centex's sales contracts all have private, binding arbitration. The builder would have been responsible for getting a final inspection and whatever occupancy certificate the City issues on a single-family residence. Many times a purchaser can waive rights and claims among all those papers that are routinely signed at closing. It's bizarre that the City and the County would let a developer plat a subdivision that contemplates filling in tanks or ponds and building on the fill. People everywhere, if you're thinking about relocating to Austin, get to know some folks who've been around here a long time and ask them to look it over before you do anything of economic significance. Otherwise trust nobody.

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fisher

10:11 AM on June 30, 2010

A son's greatest nightmare, parents who follow him to college. Simple solution is to have several holes bore some 10 to 15 feet down through the clay bottom of the former stock tank, then fill the hole with coarse sand. The sand will allow the water in the soil to drain and lower the water table. This solution works for all situation where water stands in low places and is permanent.

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jerkie

9:44 AM on June 30, 2010

Centex is the builder, Centex is the mortgage company too....what do you expect?

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Wayne Caswell

9:44 AM on June 30, 2010

Urban sprawl onto rich farmland -- land with expansive clay soil thatâ€™s often contaminated with decades of pesticide use â€“ has contributed to the serious construction defects across the state and the nation. Expansive soil and resulting foundation failures have made homes unlivable and led to loan defaults, just as predatory loans with artificially inflated appraisals did.

Disregarding the pond issue, my quick analysis of USDA Web Soil Survey data (http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/WebSoilSurvey.aspx) shows that over 2/3 of the area where the Shanmugam home was built is classified as expansive clay and considered â€œvery limitedâ€ for building without extensive remediation. What fill dirt did Centex use? Was it expansive clay too? City Planning officials too often ignore readily available USDA data that would help with zoning and permitting and suggest where building homes is a good idea and where it isnâ€™t. It seems in this case that both Centex and the City may share responsibility. Read more at http://www.homeownersoftexas.org/Soil_Issues

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Froggy

9:28 AM on June 30, 2010

Why is the certificate of occupancy not a required document at closing? And why are production building companies allowed also to own their own mortgage companies? That's a conflict of interest. Thanks for publishing this. It's good information for the public to be aware of. People who want to "do their homework" will have another clue about what to ask and what to look for.

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Marko

9:13 AM on June 30, 2010

A certificate of occupancy won't fix their drainage problems. Getting the city involved will only make things more complicated.

Three years is way too patient. They won't be able to sell the house without disclosing the existing drainage problems. Their only choice is to hire a lawyer.

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Monkshine

9:11 AM on June 30, 2010

The city had no business allowing the builder to build in this property!!! Where is the record of inspections.. Sue the city!!! Enough of this.. !!!

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P8riot

9:01 AM on June 30, 2010

@longhorns1: The story states that the pond was a "human-made stock pond", so there should be no tributary, downstream or underflow issues.
@Txlakeside: The city code inspectors know that they will get their $ from the builders in the form of payola for falsifying the paperwork on a regular basis.

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scubatoy

8:46 AM on June 30, 2010

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I feel so bad for these people. I hope they see this through and get the home they want....minus the water problems.

And they shouldn't feel "perplexed" about what happened. A bunch of "screw-ups" just screwed up and got caught.

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boogersnot

8:41 AM on June 30, 2010

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but on the bright side, they shouldn't have to ever worry about watering their lawn.

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ChuckT

8:39 AM on June 30, 2010

snell, It is common for Asian Indians to buy their homes with cash. A bank may not have been involved.

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annae

8:30 AM on June 30, 2010

I went through something similar in the 80's. Closed and moved into a home that had not been inspected nor given a certificate of occupancy. Everybody worked quietly and quickly to resolve the problem. Apparently the builder went bankrupt and work stopped on some of his houses including mine. He later committed suicide. I learned alot from this and bought another house after that without problems.

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yogeorgia

8:26 AM on June 30, 2010

Makes you wonder whose pocket was lined?

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mom2

8:23 AM on June 30, 2010

Remind me not to buy a Centex home! I am leary of these cookie cutter subdivisions anyway, but nobody deserves to live in a home with the problems they have.

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searcher5

8:15 AM on June 30, 2010

You can't just fill in the pond. the clay liner that retains the water has to be dug out and removed. If that is not done, then it will always fill as the connecting dirt can't siphon the water away fast enough. The waterway input, as mention by one other gentleman, also may have to be modified/diverted to keep it from supplying water to the now defunct pond. Just trucking in dirt, now allows the pond to provide water up to 3 feet higher than before, based on siphon/capillary effect with the new dirt. This can be done, but it sounds like they took the short cut instead of the right way. Txlakeside is probably correct, the city either gave them a temporary order, or just looked the other way. Wonder who got the money in the bribe.

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Skepizzle

8:14 AM on June 30, 2010

The very sad fact is that when a contractor or a builder really screws up, it is the homeowner who pays. Litigation would probably cost as much as the house, and take years. Then there is the problem of actually collecting from a builder. You can't build on old lakebeds...over old pools...etc. It is madness.

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jocjuke

8:13 AM on June 30, 2010

Centex owes this couple a new home, right away. They need to make this right. All the agencies that failed to do their jobs need to work with them for a just settlement. I hope they have a good lawyer, in case Centex and these agencies fail them again.

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Txlakeside

7:34 AM on June 30, 2010

Someone needs to ask why a water meter and electric meter were set without the CO? My guess is the builder requested a temporary CO. The City has a very real track record of "overlooking" their own rules. All a builder has to do is thump their chest and the chicken-S city code enforcement will back down!

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longhorns1

7:14 AM on June 30, 2010

Was the pond on a tributary? What happened to the tributary? Did they relocate it? or just fill it in? If they just filled it in, sounds illegal to try and cut off water from flowing downstream ...and maybe there is still underflow water going through there because they didn't alter the elevations that created the watercourse in the first place...if the pond was on a creek that is.

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Stogey

6:40 AM on June 30, 2010

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I suppose these people should either buy a boat or learn how to swim !

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snell

6:40 AM on June 30, 2010

Interesting that a bank would lend money on a home without a certificate of occupancy. When I bought AND sold my previous home a certificate of occupancy had to be presented at closing. Someone somewhere dropped the ball BIG TIME. Just goes to show that with Centex you get what you pay for.

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Roger's wife

6:27 AM on June 30, 2010

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Their engineer has a report that says the home is safe, yet they didn't get a CO before selling the home?

I hope the Shanmugams have hired an attorney - they deserve their money back plus any interest paid on the home....it should never have been sold in the first place until the CO was obtained!

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longhorns1

12:23 AM on June 30, 2010

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sounds like the street in woodland hills that has been replaced already once...the street was full of potholes and like a rollercoaster. Sounds like it was built on a pond/ bad soil. Any relation to the San Antonio fiasco? Centex is getting a bad reputation.

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Name withheld b.

11:27 PM on June 29, 2010

Seems to me that all of that should have been attended to and investigated and collected by the title company prior to closing. There is more than just one target here... Centex AND the title company.

http://www.statesman.com/news/statesmanwatch/couples-home-built-on-former-pond-plagued-with-777255.html?page=2