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Author Topic: Pepper Viner just up and ripped me off  (Read 3102 times)
Gene Hendricks
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« on: January 28, 2007, 05:45:49 pm »

Two days after I made my down payment for a 'spec' home, I experienced unexpected increases to my family size.  I had to relocate, so I came in and had the sales agent write me up a notice of default. 

I told her that the down payment check had not been cashed yet and that perhaps I should just put a stop payment on it.  She assured me that this happens all the time and that the company is really good with it. 

I should not have listened to her.  Pepper Viner homebuilders have absconded with $8,826.50.  I have NOTHING to show for it.  They claim they suffered losses, but how can they suffer that much in losses in just two days?   Huh

This is a lot of money for a teacher like me, yet no one seems to care at their headquarters.  I wish I knew someone who could reason with them.    Cry
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rrj
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2007, 11:21:49 pm »


I told her that the down payment check had not been cashed yet and that perhaps I should just put a stop payment on it.  She assured me that this happens all the time and that the company is really good with it. 


 Really sorry you didn't stop payment. This DOES happen all the time. She meant it would be no problem for the builder, not you. Likely, the only thing you can hope for is they will be reasonable and voluntarily do the right thing, somehow. Trust, Honor, Integrity, are slogan words that seldom apply to big American business.
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marc
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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2007, 06:29:59 pm »

Can you take this to a tv station, consumer reporter perhaps?
They may not want the bad publicity.
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Deffen
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2007, 01:00:45 pm »

This is a very simple matter.

When you made your downpayment, you signed (or should have signed) a contract for the purchase. That contract has (or should have) provisions for cancellation and cancellation charges.

If your contract entitles you to a partial or total refund, by all means see a lawyer and sue the builder. If it is a non-refundable payment, you have no recourse.

This is why it is very important to have a contract, read it and have a lawyer review it if you don't understand what it says. When you have this much money at stake, it's good to understand exactly what you are getting into.

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rrj
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2007, 05:57:47 am »

It is possible there is some truth in what the builder is saying, though they should still give you your money back. Some builders wait to purchase anything until you have signed for your home. They may have purchased the plot of land after you signed and ordered materials. Cancellations are a routine part of the business though. I see those in builder income or P&E breakdowns every time. It’s unlikely they will have lost your entire down payment, even if there are some actual losses in such a short time.
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Deffen
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2007, 10:42:43 am »

Ron,

What you are saying is entirely true. But loss by the builder (or lack thereof) does not determine the amount (if any) of the refund. The contract does.

My dentist clearly states on my appointment cards that I will be charged in full if I fail to cancel an appointment 3 days in advance. It doesn't matter if he suffers any losses.

That's why it is absolutely essential to read and understand your contract BEFORE you sign it.
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rrj
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2007, 05:22:35 pm »

I didn't mean to imply they wouldn't have to take the loss, just they shouldn't. Buyers certainly have to live by rule of law in these deals. Builders, it's somewhat optional. Personally if I entered a contract and paid thousands to secure it, I would expect it to be difficult if not impossible to escape. There is so much money involved to an average consumer that they should be able to get most of it back without paying a lawyer half of it in these situations. Things are not as they should be.

My point was, the builder should be entitled to a fair amount of losses when these things happen, as they do every day. You could get a lawyer to tell you that all the consumer agreements we are typically forced into if we want anything are written disproportionately in favor of the seller. The ABA would love it if we had to have a lawyer cover every detail in our lives, which is what under regulated business is in effect leading us to.

This wasn't a missed dental appointment. That has a logical and fair basis. If you had to miss an appointment, and it cost you so much that you could not afford to go to any dentist for years afterward, it would be a legitimate consumer problem that needs to be addressed by more than "read the contract."   
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Deffen
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2007, 12:18:06 am »

Ron, the problem with your argument is the words "should" and "fair". 

That's why there is a contract. The contract defines everyone's responsibility, i.e. what each party "should" do.  It's not up to you to decide what someone "should" do. The contract already does that. They both agreed to it.

As to "fair", since both parties agreed to the contract, that's considered fair. If you don't think it's fair, DON'T SIGN IT. DON"T BUY THE HOUSE. Nobody has ever died from failure to live in a new house. 

It always amazes me how people take stop signs very seriously. The penalty is what? $50?  But a huge number of home buyers never take the contract seriously. The penalty there is what? A  hundred thou if you don't pay attention? Amazing. 
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rrj
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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2007, 04:19:19 am »

Dude, I understand what a contract is. I told the guy he probably lost is money. It isn't in reality, that black and white for BOTH sides. It's unrealistic to think people are going to stop buying homes because contracts are universally unfair. About the only people that understand this are victims, and we have little public voice in the matter, so few perspective buyers have a clue. It has to be our job here to begin to define what builders should do and what is fair, and arguable reasons why this is fair with both parties considered, to deflate their arguments as we make ours.

Tort reform advocates are successfully using this approach, though they also are heavily funded in their cause, unlike us. Of course none of the promised benefits to the public have or will ever appear in states that adopted reform, but that's another subject. And be realistic about the builder's side of the contract making everything defined and equitable. The contract will barley say what the builder must do, and they will breach the contract with impunity if they need to.

If we don't discuss things from a perspective of what should be done, and get a clear agenda to put forward in the political realm in this and many other related topics, we are just commiserating misfortune. While we still need case an points,  I'm ready to move beyond that.   

Signing a new home contract compared to running a stop sign? People run them all the time if they see nothing coming. Buyers don't know they could get run over by a 4 ton SUV if they sign a homebuyer contract, and sales people are trained to convince them the road is clear. Americans stupid enough to trust anyone should be ripped off by law I guess?   
« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 04:43:26 am by Ron Jackson » Logged

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