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Author Topic: Disappearing Homeowner Websites  (Read 58 times)
ASynconHome
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« on: January 05, 2009, 01:28:52 am »

I'm curious about some of the homeowner websites that end up disappearing without a word.  Specifically, it seems like there's quite a few sites that homeowners put a lot of work into and then they're gone.  Some even show up with an ownership change to the builder and then redirect to the builder's site.  Does anyone have an idea what might have happened in these cases?

I can imagine that some of the homeowners eventually get their houses fixed.  They might think there's no longer any reason to keep the website up, so they jsut let it expire. 

However, I can't imagine that happens for everyone.  I can't imagine that it happens for those homeowner sites that end up being owned by the builder.

One of the sites that comes to mind is the old kbhomessucks.com site.  That owner fought the good fight and prevailed in his right to keep the site.  Now, it's gone.

There's other ones too.  They just don't come to mind at the moment.

With all the court decisions affirming free speech rights, how internet sites are just the current version of shouting from the rooftops and the protection provided by anti-SLAPP (Strategic Litigation Against Public Participation) legislation, what else could be contributing to what I'm seeing.  Is everyone just getting their hosues fixed, so there's no need for the sites or is something else happening?  Are the sites being purchased by the builders or are they being included as part of a settlement agreement with the homeowner?

I haven't been able to find any data about this issue.  If anyone has any perspective, I'd appreciate hearing about it.  Thanks in advance for your comments.
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rrj
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2009, 03:25:48 am »

You can find one answer to this by going to Ed's rip-off reports website http://ripoffreport.com/reports/0/004/RipOff0004175.htm, under Ryan Homes complaints. There you will see where Ryan Homes built defective homes in an entire subdivision. One of the victims went public on the rip off report forum.

In order to get Ryan Homes to fix the houses, ALL public complaints from the victim were ordered to be removed, and the victim had a gag order that prevented them from discussing the problems any further. Ed will not remove complaints from the rip off report site, so there you can read Ryan Homes failed attempt at an all encompassing gag order. 

Builders typically handle larger problems this way, if the choose to do anything at all. This is mostly so they can lie time and again when someone new also has a serious builder created problem. They hope to isolate them and wear them down, and often that works.

The non-disclosure or gag order method also helps bury a long visible history of shoddy work, that if it were to remain accessible and well documented, might force our representatives to take notice and create consumer protections. That would reduce this often devastating problems to hundreds of thousands of home buyers. Some of us will not wear down, so they use a defamatory approach to explain away places like HOBB.org and HADD.com.

Some gripe site builders cave to threats of legal action from the builder, even if the threat is only a scare tactic. Actually suing their own customers can backfire on the builder in the worst way. In rare cases the builder can find a valid legal angle to get a site shut down if it is not carefully built.

Common mistakes are using the company's logo on the grip site, which is simple copyright infringement, or stating allegations or opinions as facts, which can legally be called defamatory. I don't know all the reasons though. There are more.  But I've had a gripe site up about my builder since maybe 2001, so I guess I know enough for now.
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I reserve the right to make as many errors in my statements as builders make in new home construction.
marc
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2009, 04:06:19 am »

I do know part of the settlement with the builder is to remove the homeowner's  website and that usually goes hand in hand with a gag order.
I know of a lady outside Houston that had a good website on a builder and after about 2 years it was gone. She obviously had to take it down to get her work done.
Brian author of the famous KBSucks made a settlement with KB' big enough for him to take down the site. In the process if I am not mistaken KB bought all sorts of domain names just in case another Brian came along.

« Last Edit: Today at 06:01:41 pm by marc » Logged
Ray Koenig
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2009, 06:40:06 am »

How convenient that it is to revise history! If the website disappears, then the shoddy construction never happened in the first place. How convenient!

Here's one blogsite that won't disappear:
http://peretired.blogspot.com/

I don't believe in revising history. Nor do I believe in cutting deals with the devil.

"All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke

PS  Bravo, rrj! Well said! Keep up the good fight!
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 06:44:17 am by Ray Koenig » Logged

"When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?"
marc
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2009, 07:07:24 am »

All of these sites in my opinion should stay up. If the builder makes one take it down as part of the settlement that is short of blackmail I would believe.
I know people have asked Janet after their settlements to remove their postings. I am not sure she did in any case. What would be the sense?
At least she was able to keep up with the domain names she still has posted on HOBB.
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Janet Ahmad
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« Reply #5 on: Today at 02:21:41 pm »

HOBB's policy is that we do not remove any complaints or references to any website from the HOBB site.

I will say this that most of the site shutdowns have been more likely the result of the builder buying back the defective homes rather than repairs.  See KB Home Buy-Backs
http://www.hobb.org/docs/KBcompensation.pdf
http://www.hobb.org/component/option,com_zoom/Itemid,468/catid,6/

Builders understand that homeowners mean business when they go to the trouble and expense of a public display of defective homes to the world, and that buying back the house and the transfer of ownership of the website is a prudent business decision.
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When it happens to you, it doesn't really matter how many good houses are out there, now does it?
Jane Doe
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« Reply #6 on: Today at 06:07:45 pm »

Ed Magedson (Rip off Report) has long claimed to have a policy that he never took down complaints, but this article/interview with him by the Phoenix New Times indicates it may not be that cut and dried: 

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2007-02-01/news/the-real-rip-off-report/  "The Real Rip-Off Report"

That said, I use the site frequently, but I don't think I'd rely on them never removing anything.

Some consumer gripe sites allow the original poster to delete their own complaint or request it be taken down, and the biggest reason for requesting it be taken down is the consumer says it's a condition of settling.  A few consumers back down to threats without any hope of settling.  I suspect many gripe sites expire as someone suggested, and lack of interest makes people abandon it.

KBHOMESUCKS.com was awesome.  It's a shame the host settled w/the condition of taking it down and I hope he got paid enough to make that feel worthwhile.  I have a rather pragmatic view of such things, though; I hate to see them disappear but it's very impractical and costly to continue something like that if you can settle and put it behind you.  Evidence that these sites existed is still there for anyone doing internet research.  That'd be enough to make me buy elsewhere if I was house shopping. 

BTW there's a new one, kbhomesucksagain.  KB is stupid if they think they can stop this by buying up domain names.  They should just try building houses right.
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