I didn't mean to wholesale the greatness of Ed's site. It is just one of the very rare places you can see the process (SOP) of a builder shutting up victims as a requirement to fix shoddy work, but failing, which is really very rare. But I also (IMO) see a tainted side of Ed's site. I'm not discounting there is an organized well funded effort started by some of the scam artists who got mad about being reported there, to discredit the whole site. So now what's certainly true becomes somewhat hazy there.

But a sample problem I see with the site, a particular gold buyer that I am positive has cheated people, paid Ed to repair their rep after complaints became rampant. Every complaint there became tagged with an endorsement from the rip-off report site, and effectively discounts a lot of evidence that the gold buyer is still is one of the worst rated high profile companies out there for buying gold. 

So yeah, I think it is possible you could pay Ed and give him some sort of BS assurance you're going to play fair, and nullify complaints. It waters down the credibility IMO.

Big companies are well aware of the problematic free speech issues the Internet can present, and have developed active counter measures to dilute even the most obvious truths. Victims are usually not well paid writers who can clearly sell through their issues, while their counter parts are often well paid specialists at debunking derogatory information with very slick lies and half truths. They also have healthy budgets to sustain their pro side. Victims often can't sustain their lose /lose efforts against that. 

One thing I saw on that site was what I think is an unfair attempt to label home buyers being primarily responsible for the mortgage crisis. They were seldom credited for the boom. It seemed insignificant that the buyers actually created the boom, and after they got trampled on by the industry's greed, and other ponzi schemes in a whacked out economy, they could no longer afford their mortgage payments.

My sister was one of those low income people that now falls into the category of "couldn't afford a house." She paid her mortgage for 15 years before having trouble. I'm not sure what she did to crash the U.S. economy, causing her to have trouble making payments, but obviously it's her fault the U.S. economy went to Hell?

Flippers aside, many buyers were paying rent to live, as you have to live somewhere, and the message was clear; it was foolish to just burn that cash when you could put the same money into a home that built equity. Burning a thousand a month for rent seemed more irresponsible then using it to pay a mortgage.

Second, the oil cartels seemed to fall upon a realization that they could gouge the American public to almost no end after the Katrina gas price gouging experience. Billions of dollars per day starting leaving the hands of consumers that would have otherwise been reinvested into our local economy, and energy costs stole profitability from existing business. A lot of people could afford houses, but the economic situation changed drastically with the deliberate lack of oversight and government leadership. If you only focus on taking care of business people, and basically decide to disregard the consumers,  the consumers were bound to become a problem.

Another huge factor, the great ARM scams also preceded the builder bust. Every bank started doing teaser rates to make home loans appear affordable, then payments nearly doubled on millions of buyers, while incomes capped or went down. We did a refi in that period and were pushed into an ARM. Fixed rates offered were intentionally horrible. The whole banking system was pushing the ARM scams. So people then say, you should have read the contracts before your payment doubled, but we did have the contracts reviewed. Those terms were obviously not in the contracts. No one would sign such deals with full knowledge.

They illegally altered the contract terms to something we never would have signed in our case, without telling us or showing us in writing. I don't know the level of banking fraud that was going on, but I know for a fact it was happening, because it happened to us.

I don't know what happened to home buyer approval standards, as I didn't buy during the insane boom period. When I was a buyer, the lender raked us over the coals, opening every aspect of our lives. Qualifying to buy a house was extremely rigorous.

Relaxing that, as it was excessive IMO, to get more people into homes was not all bad at first. It became a toxic thing when anybody with a hammer started building homes to meet the demand. And much worse, those "builders" (who supplied illegals 10s of million of American jobs) started doing their own financing to sell their homes, and then dumping the loans on investors.

So it's easy to just blame buyers for the crash. But nobody thanked them for the boom, with things like consumer protection. It was quite the opposite. Many buyers are just people who had money that now don't have money, and ultimately are just the pawns of the industry. Buyers were viewed as a nearly frivolous part of the process of getting rich in the mortgage and home building business. Only when that business model backfired, did the home buyer finally get the spotlight. Now they are important as the people to blame.

I doubt it, but no way to know. We had arbitration in our contract, but they forgot to get a needed signature at closing making it enforceable, so it wasn't a factor for us. I would speculate they got around arbitration. Logically, as if that mattered, mold remediation and health care issues couldn't be filed as a warranty claim, the builder couldn't address those issues, so there's little to nothing to mediate with the builder. But all I know is what's in the article.

There is also a coating material that protects the copper coils from oxidation without seriously damaging the thermal conduction significantly. This might reduce the symptoms of the problem, but I figured the out-gassing still needs to be looked in to. We import so much from China, it's no shock they would throw in some hazardous waste in any of their products.

This is much our story (minus any legal recovery) except we were told by mold remediation "experts" and Allstate insurance that mold was not considered a serious health hazard in VA, and there was a general waiver of liability of any mold claims from the VA governor. 

If statutes could have gone one more year, the 7 figures our case would bring might have gotten us attention from a real attorney. I had estimated we're probably around a 3 mil dollar case now, if not for the statutes cutting us off and it being where Ryan Homes is so tight with the locals. It's sad statutes can expire while a problem is still ongoing. Some states they can't, or so I hear.

That case will probably cause another flare up in business protection incentives, that will seek to ban future suits like that. Interesting to see that someone in VA could not dismiss mold as a health issue, though we knew first hand the truths about that.

Thanks for posting the story.

You can find one answer to this by going to Ed's rip-off reports website http://ripoffreport.com/reports/0/004/RipOff0004175.htm, under Ryan Homes complaints. There you will see where Ryan Homes built defective homes in an entire subdivision. One of the victims went public on the rip off report forum.

In order to get Ryan Homes to fix the houses, ALL public complaints from the victim were ordered to be removed, and the victim had a gag order that prevented them from discussing the problems any further. Ed will not remove complaints from the rip off report site, so there you can read Ryan Homes failed attempt at an all encompassing gag order. 

Builders typically handle larger problems this way, if the choose to do anything at all. This is mostly so they can lie time and again when someone new also has a serious builder created problem. They hope to isolate them and wear them down, and often that works.

The non-disclosure or gag order method also helps bury a long visible history of shoddy work, that if it were to remain accessible and well documented, might force our representatives to take notice and create consumer protections. That would reduce this often devastating problems to hundreds of thousands of home buyers. Some of us will not wear down, so they use a defamatory approach to explain away places like HOBB.org and HADD.com.

Some gripe site builders cave to threats of legal action from the builder, even if the threat is only a scare tactic. Actually suing their own customers can backfire on the builder in the worst way. In rare cases the builder can find a valid legal angle to get a site shut down if it is not carefully built.

Common mistakes are using the company's logo on the grip site, which is simple copyright infringement, or stating allegations or opinions as facts, which can legally be called defamatory. I don't know all the reasons though. There are more.  But I've had a gripe site up about my builder since maybe 2001, so I guess I know enough for now.

Help requested

I added an e-mail link to my site to encourage complaints and comments sent by e-mail, so I can add them to the existing page of complaints and comments list. If anyone has the time to send just a note or comments, maybe about why you would never buy from Ryan Homes/NVR based on info on my site, or just general comments about the despicable lack of builder accountability that is so common, anything would be appreciated. Even if it's just a sentence I can add.

I just found out by testing, I had spam filters set so strong, I'd blocked almost ALL e-mails unintentionally. I was getting so many viruses and junk mail, that I got tired of sorting and just blocked it all. Filters are still strong but sorting won't be as hard now with better filters.

Thanks in advance! I don't have a message board enabled yet, as I've already seen evidence Ryan Homes shills would slam it and or hack it, like employees from any scam artist type of company would do. I may set up form mail to help with this, as I'm learning more advanced web design and new management design tools now.

please go to http://ryanhomesnightmare.com  You may need to scroll down tiny bit to see a flashing "we need your help link that has the e-mail page and click-able link to e-mail comments. I know spammer's spyders will eventually grab it and slam it with junk mail and viruses, even faster if I put it on here so...

non click-able it's: comments(@)keepernsol.com

thanks!

Ron

Odd the builder mentioned title insurance to protect buyers from unpaid liens. My experience, title insurance only protect the mortgage company, not the home buyer. Because this is grossly unfair practice, to by default dump unpaid builder debts on unsuspecting buyers, something my home's builder does routinely, it would be a common sense law that selling someone anything with a hidden lien on it should not be legal. But rather, it is SOP. Even our builder never skipped a bill because the were short on funds. They just gift themselves with a bonus in profits. Another "things should be," but they are not. 

We live in it. We stayed out 3 1/2 years but paying for two places, no legit remediation support at all in VA, we had to move back in without complete repairs or enough resources to really make it work. Restoration was do-it-yourself, with one group saying mold is a scam, and another saying it's as dangerous as anthrax. With neither right, there's not been much unbiased information. I keep thinking I can work a way through this, but it's so debilitating at the same time.

It's not a past problem but still a looming disaster on the horizon. But thanks to the builder greed over the last decade we will look like just one of the millions who could lose everything in 2009, with no one specific party to blame. I'm not accepting that, but it's the current reality.

While feeling so bad for these holidays, I did two mold tests a couple weeks before Christmas. We know without a doubt the house still causes health symptoms, and side effects are pretty bad. One test was done in a room that had smelled moldy, but days before the test I had been running  an air sanitizer that uses Ozone as one of three mold and allergen killer techs. The machine was running during the test. No spores at all were detected with that machine running a few feet near the test dish.

I turned the mold killer machine off, and did a two minute air sample of air coming from the HVAC vent. Several types of mold filled the test dish and incubated. A dish with no mold spore growing just has a thin yellow film left over the glass. All the "stuff" you see around the yellow film are living and growing mold colonies.

So Hell for Christmas sounds all drama maybe. But we're supposed to breath in this junk, feel like Hell all the time (for years in this house), and fight a builder protection system that had every single card in the deck stacked against us. The cheap slab design of our town home, and improper installation of the HVAC made this homes a natural breeding ground for mold.

So scrape up a dish of this (pictured below) with your turkey and stuffing.  If you had dinner here, you ate dish of this stuff too. Yum.

Now that blog explains the sunset committee's reason for not doing their job. They are secretly staffed with conspiracy minded litigation attorney henchmen looking to destroy builders by creating false research data about the TRCC to the sunset commission. So they wisely disregard their own data, and make recommendations based on what now?

Allowing home owners a chance to bring their un-resolvable builder issues before a jury that doesn't take donations from Bob Perry would be a major blow to Texas and all the honest home builders. That could be a reason for the TRCC, but IMO not a very good one. Even in defending the TRCC they make it sound like its sole purpose is builder protection from the evil justice system, and that's somehow still a good thing.

IMO, Janet and Jane both have solid perspectives on the issue. I think it's why we all "should" be able to have the option of having a jury of our peers to weigh the issues in more depth and make a decision that is not certainly biased, as I feel the TRCC would, not that their ruling wold be worth jacks beans anyway.

I know Susan and Marc are living in houses that are flat worthless, not just depreciated, and they can't even get an apology, much less a fair settlement. And these buyers think their issue is as simple as right and wrong, not knowing the depth of the calculated void in KB's ethics.

I think even if Jane may not side with the victims, she wouldn’t be against their right to be heard and have their day in court, should it come to that. And Janet knows way too much about KB Homes, for me to doubt her veracity.

Of course your right, that biz should not have so much power over my well being. But it's not exactly just the builder that is bothersome. It's a thousand little secondary things. Like I was two weeks late on one car payment for Capital One auto finance. I called and wrote them in advance I would be late, and when that would be resolved. It was a one time thing.

Still they called me hundreds of times, called my cell early every weekend morning to wake me up, using their automated computer harassment system, (often there was no message, just the call to harass) sent a collection notice demanding the entire balance, put I had a collection on my credit report.

 I'd been months ahead on payments for two years prior and one time I have an brief issue. Stuff like that pisses me off so bad now, and there is NO WAY I'd every have an issue like that if not for the builder damage to my financial situation. It's not just them, just about all money grubbing institutions are doing this to people in the midst of difficult times.   

That same month I was 1 day late on credit card payment because of the BOA payment system, that ended up costing 97 dollars in fees. It's un-ending stuff that seems just constant and daily, legal theft from institutions we bailed out, and again it would probably not be happening if not for Ryan Homes dismissive , even arrogant attitude, though banks right now will steal from anyone, because theirs little to no consequence to them.

And yeah, the whole thing is about sorry azz government representatives who let the builders loose to ruin people, and the banks, and dozens of other huge ruthless intuitions that are a required part of modern life. It's okay to get outraged to the point you take whatever action to get change. I'd rather that than our apathetic national attitude. It just over years sometimes it gets too personal. But I will contain it, because your of course again right it's not worth it.

Thanks for caring and your reply. Just imagine  if two or three percent of other Americans cared about injustices to someone other than themselves and took any action..even for themselves.

I'm (thank God) not in Texas. However, my impression of the sunset committee's sole job is to put to rest wasteful or un-needed programs in Texas government. Clearly their evaluation of the TRCC determined the TRCC was essentially dysfunctional.

It is not the committee's job to repair broken legislative branches, or make suggestions on how they could work after evaluations. Otherwise the committee itself becomes dysfunctional. Anything could work, if you tweak it year after year, and spinelessly wait and see. Their purpose, and their job is to cut those dead government branches off. If they're too diluted to make any straightforward decisions as directed, they should themselves be dissolved.

The TRCC well knew they were under review by the Sunset Committee. If the TRCC had any intentions of being an effective governing body, those suggested changes at the hearing could and should have already been initiated before a hearing, with some proof they were effective changes.

By all accounts the TRCC earned a failing grade as a public service. Why else would anyone suggest patches instead of making a definitive decision, as a sunset committee must do to be effective? IMO the Sunset committee should be referred to hereafter as the "try to fix stupid crap that doesn't work in Texas committee" until that body is fixed. 

With a more accurate title, the public may want to fix the "fixer" committee that assures their government is doing it's job. Cutting wasteful programs is a tough job, and if people on the committee are not up to that task, remove them. It may not be how government really works in Texas, if one assumes it really works.

I'm running about 250,000 ads (copy below) up to Christmas. Health wise I got near crashing again, and neared going back to the hospital. But we're doing all that's possible to recover. My Doctor said if I crash again, he's not sure I can recover this time because of the damage from the same type event last year, though awaiting test results to see if it is for sure the same issue, or it just feels exactly the same.

What this has to do with a bad building? It's 100% stress created illnesses. Yeah, we all have stress to deal with, and I know that's life. But as people here know, the home defect issues can and usually do cause a ripple effect that in this case led to thousands of growing ripple effect problems over a period of years. Eventually it's like being hit by a truck. And trying to stay positive and say it didn't effect me doesn't work that well.

How many lives does a builder need to ruin to be considered a bad builder? IMO just one. When your corporate head reports grosses in the billions $$$ per year, even in a slow market, for them to say "there's nothing we can do" just doesn't cut it for me.

I know some will think I was looking for deep pockets and some excuse to try to cash in on exaggerated claims or whatever those type say, when I sought legal recovery. Sure people do think like that. Before the defect issue happened, I did not need money, not by inventing some extremely complex bogus lawsuit. That was NOT nor ever will be of interest or useful to my real life goals.

Lawsuits are not worth the time or trouble for most of us in the real world. I was certainly secure and fundamentally  set for life in that area, and just working on what I wanted career wise. I was not wealthy, nor did I ever seek that in a legal recovery suit. Just needed recovery. I was secure for my life's basic needs. Now I have to rebuild.

I know a lot of people are going through misfortune this holiday season, and my empathy is not lost upon them. But my situation, as is that of many others posting here, was not just misfortune. It was and is a calculated business plan that remains perfectly acceptable... and will continue if the victims and caring people remain compliant.

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