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Thanks!
Janet Ahmad

Welcome to the Hobb Forums!

Many individuals and families have experienced life altering-experiences when they wanted nothing more than to attain the American Dream but found instead a nightmare of buying a home. 

This forum offers a valuable tool to help HOBB provide hope and inspiration to many for a better tomorrow.  Now you can meet others and share your experiences with those who can relate to your problems,and truly understand and feel your pain. 

You will hear from experts who will join in to offer suggestions and professional comments about how you can get through this most difficult experience. You will learn how you, too, can participate in the legislative process to make a real difference.

At HOBB we have seen that sharing experiences and helping others help themselves does work.  Working together, we can and will help to make a difference. 

We truly hope you enjoy using this forum.  So let's get started.

Thanks,
Janet Ahmad, president

Janet, I love the forum platform.  I do have a question (concern).  As we are currently involved in legal action against our builder, can he use any postings from this site against us?  I will of course be careful in what I post but our builder twists and out and out lies about pretty much everything connected with our case.

Your builder, Goff Homes has already tried to take away your first amendment rights by placing outrageous deed restriction that prohibits you from the following:
FILE ANY PROTEST, GRIEVANCE, OR COMPLAINT… INCLUDING THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU OR ANY MEDIA ENTITY, TELEVISION OR OTHERWISE… AGREES THAT NO SIGN OR BILLBOARD OR WRITING OR CHART OR DRAWING CONCERNING THE CONDITION OF THE HOME AND/OR PROPERTY SHALL BE ERECTED OR PLACED IN SUCH A WAY THAT IS VISIBLE TO PERSONS PASSING BY THE PROPERTY… and much more.
I can’t for one moment believe that any judge or jury would condone such behavior. As for the actions of an arbitrator well, that’s another battle for another day.

If we can't or do not speak up when tyrants (builders) seek to impose contemptible restrictions on families buying defective homes, the consequences will be far greater.  Consumers will all forever lose basic constitutional protection right when purchasing all other consumer products.  If these shameless homebuilding bullies are allowed to succeed with their disregard of the law we all lose.  I can’t imagine that any of us will allow that to happen at least while I’m living.  :D

Just a few thoughts on bad foundations.

I hand dug a basement under my 80 year old house in East Dallas and it is cool and dry all year long. So why do people keep saying you can’t have a basement in a new house in Texas. The four year old McMansion next door has a major crack running through the middle of the polished concrete slab downstairs. My basement floor didn’t crack like that. How come?

The basis of a majority of all residential construction defects here in the Dallas Texas area can be traced back to faulty slab foundation design. You just don’t get cracks in floors, walls and ceilings if the foundation isn’t moving around. It’s no secret how to build a good foundation here, it just costs more and they generally don’t do it.

Why aren’t the builders required to build good foundations? Because the city leaders think it would make houses to expensive which would slow down sales and they wouldn’t get as much tax revenue. Besides what would happen to the multi-million dollar foundation repair business if the city required that foundations be built strong enough to withstand the expansive geology we find here? It’s about politics and money.

Not only are builders in the city of Dallas not required to do engineering studies of the geology of the lot the house will sit on, they are allowed by the wording of the building code to keep making the same mistake over and over because it was allowed before.

The expansive black clay and Eagleford shale which exist here have been known to geologists and engineers for a century or more. Many of the same clay types we find here exist under London England and yet London isn’t falling apart. Go figure.
A compact dry square foot of  expansive black clay will expand an eighth of an inch in all directions when it gets completely moistened. Imagine a house built on 10 feet of that stuff. Dry Summer to wet spring that’s 10/8’s of an inch up and down every season. That’s an inch and a quarter every year up and down. What makes it better and more exciting is that clay is unpredictable. Parts may get wetter than others, so the ride isn’t even, it’s lumpy. Take a drive through Los Colonies or on 635 out to DFW airport on the west side of the Elm Fork of the Trinity river. There are sections there that were originally built perfectly flat by the highway department but now have one foot or more up and down waves in the concrete roadway. The highway department wouldn’t spend the money to get it right either. Or maybe their the same crowd who refuses to admit there’s a problem.
I haven’t even brought up what happens to Eagleford shale when it wets and drys out but it’s far worse that the black clay. Ask anyone in Grand Prairie Texas who has a swimming pool which rocks back and forth like a Mexican jumping bean. Or the red faced Engineers who tried to build the super conducting super collider in the edge of the Eagleford shale and had Congress shut them down. Maybe the feds knew something after all.

And let’s say that a builder of a track home or a McMansion did put in a solid substantial foundation under a cheaply built house which is designed to last 20 years at best. Who would pay for the extra concrete and rebar? After all it doesn’t show. You can’t prove it’s there. The new owners are only interested in price per square foot. The competition doesn’t do it. Etceteras Etceteras.

In a business climate which is based not on quality but entirely on quantity and profits, anything which doesn’t lead directly to a higher immediate profit margin is of no value to the builder.  Combine that with an ignorant, short sighted city council and a political climate which is willing to promote shoddy construction design and execution at any cost in order to increase it’s tax base, and you have what’s happening in Dallas today.

Since the two interested parties to this dilemma are not willing to give an inch. The buyers don’t want to spend more and the builders don’t want to make less, the playing field must be leveled by the governing body namely  the city council and through them the building code. The City is the only entity  which can decide that it is sick and tired of houses falling apart because of inadequate foundations and they’re just not going to take it anymore.
The only solution to the problem of cracking foundations is a much more scientific and stringent building code which specially regulates who can and cannot design and who can and cannot build a foundation. It must precisely address the complex geology of this region and prescribe options which must be followed. Without a much more stringent building code the builders certainly won’t change their profit hugging methods. Unless it forces them all to change none will change. The major builders have a contingency fund set up for nothing else but for hiring lawyers to defend them against their shoddy workmanship. City building inspectors can’t enforce rules which aren’t on the books, and the circus will just keep marching down this same weird road we’ve been on for the better part of a century.

Good Foundation:
You are absolutely right. Builders find it highly profitable to cut corners on the most important component of a house, the foundation and cities are allowing it to happen.  It has been estimated that it would cost an extra $800 to $1,500 to build a decent foundation in Texas.  If given a choice homeowners would gladly pay the difference to avoid seeing their home and investment self-destruct.  The problem is buyers are not told about the problem or given a choice.

Estimated by whom?
What exactly was estimated?
What is decent?
Cost the Buyer or Seller $800 to $1,500?

Care to share some factual references on this subject.

NOYB
This is not necessarily a question of homebuyers paying more to avoid defective foundations. Foundation failures are the result of an unregulated industry and builders cutting corners for the sake of higher profits.
 
It has been well established that foundation failures are prevalent in Texas.   Over the years numerous experts have testified extensively about the serious problem of builders cutting corners and the foundation inevitably is the first example described.

The disgraceful response by the building industry is that homeowners have a maintenance responsibility to water their foundations to protect the structural integrity of their homes. 

Texas has highly expansive soils as well as many other states however, no other place but Texas are homeowners instructed to "water their foundations."  Other states officials and experts laugh when they hear that in Texas homeowners are blamed for foundation failures because they didn't water their foundations or they watered too much. ::)

HUD's Code of Federal Regulations addresses this issue. The Builders Certification (HUD 9254) addresses the issue of expansive soil.  Question "f. Foreseeable Hazards of Adverse Conditions: (2) Does the site have unstable soils..."  If the builder answers that question by checking the "yes" box the property is ineligible under HUD guidelines.

The solution to the expansive soil problem is to engineer foundation adequately to withstand the adverse effects of expansive soil or not building homes where those soils exist.  The figures $800 to $1,500 are figures used by those who testified about the need to beef up the foundations.

Builders have a responsibility to build defective free foundations however; in Texas where the industry is unregulated, homebuyers are unable to hold their builder accountable for cutting corners. So the new home defective foundation problem will continue to worsen.

I'm new to the HOBB community and have been enjoying the resources available here.

My wife and I are on the verge of starting a new home construction in San Antonio, via D.R. Horton.  We're still at 0%.

Little did we know how things are in TX with regards to lack of regulation and accountability.  Very frightening.  We hired our own inspector who came highly recommened by our real estate agent.  He even told us to expect the worst, but encouraged us to fight through every step of the way. 

I'm looking forward to sharing our experiences along the way (gulp).

Here we go.

I hope your situation is an exception to the rule that using a real estate agent's recommendation for an inspector can lead to problems: http://www.independentinspectors.org/conflictofinterest.html

One really common defect, (actually a series of defects), in new tract homes is to put in windows and siding with no flashing or house wrap.  Another is to neglect to put reinforcement in foundations or compact the soil before it's poured.  If you're having stucco put on that is a whole 'nother area where many builders do it wrong. 

Is your inspector knowledgeable about these things and will he be there when it's done, before it's covered up?

Real estate agents want the sale to go through.  Recommending an inspector who'll potentially kill the deal is against their interest.  I admit some agents are ethical and might actually care that you get a good house.  But there have been good reasons to mistrust this arrangement, so just be aware of that as you go along.

Good luck.

Our RE agent came about through a personal referral so there's no concerns about her recommendation.  He is very knowledgable not only about the various facets of construction,  but also knows the workings around arbitration and the wide-spread corruption.

Thanks for the insight. 

Jane Doe  is right.

http://www.badstucco.com/repair2.html
 
http://www.badstucco.com/properflash/properflash.html
 
http://www.badstucco.com/woodrot/indexwr.html
 
http://www.badstucco.com/Leaks101_files/frame.htm
 
http://www.badstucco.com/howwe.htm
 
http://www.badstucco.com/ff.htm
 
http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/Content?oid=oid%3A53294
Carl

Regardless of the homework you do, you will not know what you are walking into.
As a believer in the BBB that was the first thing I looked at.I had a great inspector, thought I did my  homework and still ended up with the nightmare of my life. This builder is still in good standing with the BBB even though they have had numerous complaints. What a joke! You just don't know. >:(

Scammed has hit upon a very good point. There is no way to GUARANTEE a new house won't have serious defects that make your life hell.  Buying an existing house that has been around awhile but has  had no cosmetic fixes to hide leaks and such, might be a much safer purchase these days.  Also, people  have to get over the brainwashing that we must all have our "dream  houses."  Builders have played on people's desire to have more house than they can rationally afford, and now a lot of people are cash poor because of their new house, even if it's not defective. 

IMO a lot of people are unaware their new house is defective because some defects don't show up right away.  They may find out the house is defective and needs thousands in repairs, but too late to do anything about holding the builder accountable.  And in TX, with the TRCC and builder friendly laws, almost no one can make a builder be accountable for his shoddy work anymore, period. 

Buying a used house or renting look a lot more attractive to buyers who know the reality of new home construction, especially in TX. 

Regarding Scammed and Jane Doe's comments, I agree.
No guarantees, that's for sure.

What does your inspector mean he knows his way around arbitration? Do not think for one minute you will get out of it  if anything happens. It is in your contract and it is the law.
Want to read a horror story? Google "Joran Fogal" and see what happens. Think you are out of arbitration. Go to court and the judge may throw you right back into it.
Watch your red flags.

Perhaps I can have a chance to clarify.

My inspector is one of the few who has actually been licensed to practice law in this field.  He knows the laws and the way the system works.  I didn't mean to give the impression that we will have a quick solution or way around arbitration, in the context of having a free ticket to victory.  In actuality, it is through this knowledge where he was able to basically give is the facts and figures which lead us to believe that we are at the mercy of the builder, period (though we believe that there is Someone much higher, Who has the last say). 

Janet,
I’m the guy who wrote the foundation diatribe. Now I have another tale of woe to tell.
My neighbor who bought the McMansion built by Blanchard Builders next door to me 4 years ago is threatening to cut down a huge pecan tree which shades the rear of my house from the blazing Texas sun as well as screen us from the ugly back side of his house.

He claims that Home of Texas home warranties will cancel his home warranty if he doesn’t cut the tree down. He has been out of work for about a year and I can imagine his terror of being stuck with a house with a bad foundation and no warranty.

What I tried to explain to him but got nowhere was that Home of Texas is a risk management Corporation in Pennsylvania which specializes in shielding builders from lawsuits from homeowners. He let me read his cover letter and it specifically stated that no tree shall exist within 20 feet of the slab foundation and that it was the homeowners responsibility to properly care for the foundation while they own the house or the warranty would expire. Funny the builder who sold the house with the warranty in place built it so close to the tree.

The tree thing got me thinking. Side yard setbacks here are 5 and 10 feet one side or the other. This would preclude any trees on the sides of a house. Front yard setbacks are 25 feet so a tree could only be planted in the 5 foot strip between the sidewalk and treeless zone. So much for landscaping I guess or shade trees of any kind as far as Home of Texas is concerned. But this is a 100 year old neighborhood with mature trees that the McMansion builders are cramming these over size houses into. Then they sell unenforceable warranties to unsuspecting buyers. Shouldn’t this be called organized crime or mail fraud?

I have to ask you. Why should it be anybody’s responsibility to "properly care for a foundation" of a brand new half million dollar house? Wouldn’t you think that at the very least the foundation of these huge things would be one of the most stable parts? Absolutely not!!! Even though bed rock is only 4 feet down here, the builder chose to bring in more black clay and put in a post tension slab with no piers. Additionally they ignored the pecan tree on the property line and conveniently left it out of the site plan submitted to the city and then built the house to within 2 feet of the tree. They routinely build this type of slab here even though the city officials and the builders all know that the slabs will crack and buckle with alarming regularity. Now that the slab is busted down the middle they are blaming the pecan tree which was there when they built the house even though the wetback ditch diggers cut all the roots when they dug the perimeter beams .

While I cannot tell you how glad I am to not own that house, I can tell you that being the neighbor has been a nightmare anyway.

Good Foundation

To Good Foundation,

This is a convenient way for warranty companies and builders to get out of covering anything.  If you drive around any new development the model homes almost invariably have the very landscaping features that void the warranty on the foundation: trees next to the house, flower beds with watering systems right next to the house, etc.  And yet, the home builders and warranty companies say this is the work of stupid home buyers who fail to "maintain" their foundation. 

The other thing they require you to do is maintain the moisture level of the soil around your foundation.  They will alternatively claim it is too dry or too wet, and that the homeowner caused foundation failure.  I do not have the link anymore but someone from hadd.com or hobb.org at one time had an online document from HUD (FHA) stating that builders requirements for "maintaining a foundation" were unreasonable.  Perhaps someone here knows where that can be found or could take time to look for it.  (I cannot right now)

This "maintain your foundation" stuff is ALL BS.  I have had numerous structural engineers tell me it is BS, but none of them have the guts to say it publicly at the state capitol when builders are pushing Right to Repair laws and claiming all homeowners are sue-happy and all claims are frivolous.  Many of them make good money fixing bad builders' handiwork, so why would they speak up, I guess.  Ditto for foundation repair companies.  Many of them are a joke, and they make a killing on new homes that have foundation failure.

A foundation should be able to withstand everything the local weather and soil can dish out, and last for generations.  Only extreme prolonged drought should affect it, and even heavy rain should drain away.  If builders graded properly it would.  That is what the engineer's recommendation for the foundation and grading tells builders they must do.  The fact many builders ignore the recommendation and take shortcuts is why so many new homes' foundations fail. 

All the ridiculous exclusions in warranties make them nothing but an illusion.  Even the "insurance" backers of these co's will deny they are an insurance company.  They will hide behind the less rigorous regulation for "risk retention groups."  Few homeowners can afford to sue anyway, but arbitration clauses and right to repair laws thwart those who could.  What is needed are court decisions saying these companies "walk like a duck and talk like a duck," meaning if they pretend to be insurance on the one hand, then they must be insurance and must be regulated as such.  For starters.

FOUNDATION UPDATE:
The myths of watering foundations and under designed foundations.
Too much rain, lack of rain, trees as “Acts of God” exposed as a fairy tale.

Because of so many homeowner complaints describing foundation failures the American Society of Engineers asked for comments and recommendations from all engineer in Texas.  The recommendation from the engineers who participated was to design slabs stiffer.  The suggested proposed results were astounding; the recommended guideline changes would increase foundation strength by 2700% at an estimated cost of only a $1,000 for a 2,500 square foot one story home or a 5,000 square foot two story.

At a recent meeting of the Texas Residential Construction Committee (TRCC) Warranty Standards Committee, a group of engineers presented their suggestions regarding what it would take to beef up foundations.  They described and acknowledged that home foundations are being designed by engineers to less stringent standards in order to build foundations cheaper.
 
One of the committee members describing how homeowners are instructed by the builder to put a soaker hose around the perimeter of the home, and never turn it off in order to keep the foundation from cracking and keep it stable.  He then asked how much water was needed to maintain a foundation.  The well known engineer responded, you can not maintain a foundation by watering it because “you can never water enough.”   

It was then pointed out that the cost of water over even a relatively short period of time would far exceed the cost of $1,000 to stiffen the foundation significantly when it is built.

So finally we have it on authority that the excuse for foundation failures caused by too much rain, lack of rain or trees is a fairy tale, and that “Acts of God” are manmade in order to increase builder’s profits.

Janet Ahmad